Bird still defends the Jason Bay trade. Give me 2 minutes to tell you why Bird should be 302'd.
In 2008, Pirates G.M. Neal Huntington traded Jason Bay for 4 players: Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss, Bryan Morris, and Craig Hansen.
In his only full season with the Boston Red Sox, Bay hit 36 Homeruns, had 119 RBI's, and had an OPS of .921. He was 7th in the A.L. MVP voting.
Last year, the prize of the return--LaRoche, hit .258, had 12 Homeruns, and had an OPS of .731. Those below-average numbers actually trumped his 2008 post-trade performance, when he hit .152 in 49 games. (consider, too, that it's only a matter of time before he gets booted from 3rd base).
LaRoche has been a gem compared to Moss, who hit .236 last year with 7 Homeruns. After clearing waivers, he's now playing ball in AAA! WOOHOO!!!
In 2008, Pirates G.M. Neal Huntington traded Jason Bay for 4 players: Andy LaRoche, Brandon Moss, Bryan Morris, and Craig Hansen.
In his only full season with the Boston Red Sox, Bay hit 36 Homeruns, had 119 RBI's, and had an OPS of .921. He was 7th in the A.L. MVP voting.
Last year, the prize of the return--LaRoche, hit .258, had 12 Homeruns, and had an OPS of .731. Those below-average numbers actually trumped his 2008 post-trade performance, when he hit .152 in 49 games. (consider, too, that it's only a matter of time before he gets booted from 3rd base).
LaRoche has been a gem compared to Moss, who hit .236 last year with 7 Homeruns. After clearing waivers, he's now playing ball in AAA! WOOHOO!!!
(Miss me yet? Photo: David Littlefield)
Morris is a 23 year-old pitching in A ball. (what does that tell you?) He also has an attitude problem. Fabulous.
As for Hansen, well, he didn't exactly dominate in the second half of 2008 with the Pirates. He was 1-4 with a 7.47 ERA, and he walked 20 batters in 15.2 innings. In 2009, he became a pain in the neck and may never pitch again. (if he does, watch out for him and that 7.47 ERA!)
So, there you have it. For one of the best players in the major leagues, the Pirates got basically nothing in return. It's one thing to shrug it off, but you've got to be crazy to defend the trade like Bird does.
Quick...you get his arms and I'll hold his legs. Now what's the quickest way to Western Psych?
As for Hansen, well, he didn't exactly dominate in the second half of 2008 with the Pirates. He was 1-4 with a 7.47 ERA, and he walked 20 batters in 15.2 innings. In 2009, he became a pain in the neck and may never pitch again. (if he does, watch out for him and that 7.47 ERA!)
Way to wheel and deal, Neal.
So, there you have it. For one of the best players in the major leagues, the Pirates got basically nothing in return. It's one thing to shrug it off, but you've got to be crazy to defend the trade like Bird does.
Quick...you get his arms and I'll hold his legs. Now what's the quickest way to Western Psych?
I will give my two cents as a Red Sox fan. By the time the Sox parted with Hansen and Moss, the fan base had pretty much given up on both of them and shed no tears upon their departure. I remind you this is the same group of people who overvalue their prospects so much that at one time, all of New England was up and arms at the idea of trading a young Trot Nixon for Sammy Sosa in his enhanced prime. Moss was labelled a AAAA or 4th OF and Hansen was viewed as ruined his quick ascension to the majors and Bard and Delcarmen had passed him by as Red Sox reliever prospects.
ReplyDeleteThe outsiders perspective of the Pirates is that the Pirates rarely get a can't miss player in their trades, instead opting for a quantity of lesser tier prospects. Obviously someone needs to be willing to part with those prospects but I think the sample size of Pirate castoffs is large enough to reasonably say the Pirates do a sub-par job in selling off their stars
Bird--how can Red Sox FANS know more than the Pirates G.M. at the time of a trade?
ReplyDeleteI am pretty sure that Moss and Hansen were viewed as throw ins to the trade. Laroche and Morris were the long term "pieces."
ReplyDeleteAnd of course the Pirate go for quantity in trades. Teams are not willing to part with top prospects like they once were (as you mention)and the Pirates have not had any "stars" to deal. Who besides Bay, Morgan, and for at least a handful of starts Tom Gorzelanny have done anything with their new team? They have to take guys with some risk but high upside because they have not had very many good assets to trade. Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, and Nate Mclouth are not stars by any stretch of the imagination.
Basically, Huntington has had to rebuild with not many assets to build from or trade.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, I don't think they could have gone out and got an elite prospect, those deals are rare and becoming rarer. I definitely believe re:Bay they could have done better (and not just in hindsight)... and ABSOLUTELY even in Fenway he was a disaster in LF
ReplyDeleteIn defense on Huntington, my delineation between him and the legendary Dave Littlefield is somewhat blurred.